Hi everyone, as someone who is an artist, animator and composer, game developer with some web development history too I wanted to make a post about the system in place here. The scoring system and other things and why they not only impact on you as a user but how it impacts on the progression and impression of this website, Newgrounds. I am a fan of Newgrounds, and I would like to initially point out that I write this to help the website. Not to bash it.
Newgrounds: The System
Newgrounds scoring system by nature is created to define sorting, but the problem when doing so therein lies that it also makes a representation of quality. This by in no means reflects an average of how people have responded to a piece of creative work, no matter how much you argue for it that it does. The scoring system is a collation of people who vote fairly, people who are jealous, people who repeatedly vote, self voters and people who randomly have never looked, watched or listened to your creative piece. Yet even though these problems are recognised this is used as Newgrounds defining mechanic. This is the ultimate sorting algorithm.
From a creative person's point of view it's a disaster that users are represented by an averaged digit on something which is subjectively likeable or not. Not only that, but it condemns and chooses who has the better taste as the current system ranks opinions of people who have voted more than those who have voted less. So those people who give consistent false scores randomly are the ones who are being empowered more as time goes on.
This is counterproductive to any artist, animator or composer who wants to be recognised. Newgrounds design should enthral and entice people to join. But as a creative person being represented by a number which by no means reflects the likeability of a piece, in fact does the exact opposite. With scores being represented as a reflection of the quality of a creative piece you can't externally link it and be taken seriously as a professional. I once linked a professional in the industry to a creative piece I had here who I was skyping at the time and the first comment they made was at all the scores people had left, and the score I had received. Whereas what I wanted to show was the creative piece, whether the feedback was good or bad, it showed me that people are seeing the numbers, and this is impacting on their opinion. Art, animation and audio is certainly subjective, so therefore to have a system in place which can impose on a person's opinion and feedback, even on a subconscious level is counterproductive. Even though Newgrounds represents itself through a fun, light hearted and attractive appearance the underlying mechanics which supports it should not deface it's usage. Something like this is damaging to the users appearance and it is damaging to the websites integrity.
The scoring systems usage and dependency unfortunately is a reflection of a poor management and a poor thought out system. It's taken Newgrounds long enough to realise how damaging their Flash only vector dependent system was, and now it struggles to pull in those who are diverse in other areas. Such as 3D animation, stop motion animation, hybrid and experimental animation, those who didn't work in vector. When Newgrounds was in its infancy the scoring system sorting worked due to the scope of content it had. However, as the number of users and content over the years has increased the scoring system now cannot be used to sort and arrange the content and should not be used to represent their community. Newgrounds should be showing off their community. They should be proud of what people are producing, and I'm sure that they are, so therefore it makes no sense to damage them through misrepresentation.
Users are aware of the abuse of the voting system. Which is why you read multiple times a month in the forums 'you should ignore the scoring system'. Making users question why it even exists. For Newgrounds to progress they need to eradicate this website defining mechanic. It's a must, to progress. To be able to compare themselves to the likes of YouTube, Deviantart and Soundcloud they need to be on par with the sorting of the content. As you can see, YouTube has a system of likes, and feedback statistics but they don't depend on it to sort their information. The statistics show things such as when interest spikes and falls, and other vital information to expand and be recognised. If Newgrounds want to really push to their level, they should consider pushing to a system which doesn't average out a score and defines that content by using a score to sort itself. It could split into likes, like SoundCloud, and YouTube (and if it chooses dislikes), but this should only be used as an additional feature not to sort content, and best to be login available only once per user. This information is much more usable and helpful to a creator and isn't damaging. We can see straight away what independent users like and what they don't like as much. Therefore if they choose so they can strive to improve and produce to what the community enjoys. These sort of statistics and mechanisms are vital for a creative community to bounce off each other, to see what works and what doesn't.
The scoring system defines popularity right now, but it shouldn't. What it should be defined by is quality of content, popularity and sharing and although the scoring system was defined to be that gauge of quality for reasons above it does not do so. So if it doesn't do its job, then the website needs to use a system which does. Newgrounds compares itself to Youtube, but they don't look at it from a sorting solution. Only in content. With all three Art, Animation and Audio the website should be looking at the sorting of Youtube, Deviantart and Soundcloud. See how these websites sort the content and see how they pull in flocks of new users every day. See how they empower users and don't discriminate with things like voting power, progressive avatar status and scouting. These are things that put Newgrounds users down, and makes them a lesser member than everyone else already in the community.
Newgrounds should also partner up with social media too. Like SoundCloud and Youtube so playability can be imbedded on Facebook. Whether you like social media or not it's arguably the best way to increase awareness of the existence of Newgrounds on the internet. With all three under the websites belt, (Animation, Art and Audio) every click to youtube, soundcloud or deviantart could be a potential click to Newgrounds. Creative people are given more variety at Newgrounds than at any of the other three and sign up is really easy. So the question therefore lies in why hasn't the website pushed in Social Media? Why hasn't it jumped straight at this knowing that it can make so much more money, and use that cash to feedback into its website and expand? Why did it stagnate so much?
Newgrounds is indeed successful, but sometimes I'm left wondering do they know how they should progress with the website? Are they happy and proud that art is sorted by votes and therefore pornographic art has risen to the top of the portal because young adolescent males are hitting 5? They should be asking themselves, why Deviant art, (which has adult art in it) not flooded by it and ruled by it? And it's simple, it's because they don't depend on the voting algorithm to sort their content. We see countless changes to the Animation area, to the Audio area, but the same destructive defining mechanic is depended on. A poor algorithm which mathematically tries to define a sorting of something subjective. My solution may sound like "Do what they are doing." But it's not just that. Through a massive amount of costly research Youtube,Soundcloud and deviantart has defined itself knowing what works and what doesn't. You'll never see them implement a scoring system, they define themselves with searches in similarity types of such as suggestions. They don't discriminate against users, but give the ability for memberships and to go pro. Giving more usage than just taking adverts away. Newgrounds has the opportunity to expand and hit that next level of popularity, but until they realise their website defining design is flawed and should be thrown away they won't be able to. Like before they need to envision that next stage of evolvement look at profile websites like Facebook, Video websites like Youtube, Art websites like Deviantart and sound websites like SoundCloud and think, how can they bring all these elements that work together to make Newgrounds take storm amongst the creative populous on the internet that it should have years ago. Like the rest of the internet Newgrounds needs to mature but in no means does this ever have to detract from the face, aesthetics, fun and vibrant community that drives its current existence. It has the agility, skills and ability to maintain their appearance and status but rid of the problems that hold them back and push forward to be a bigger and better website.
All the best to you all!
If you got this far, thanks for reading! Feel free if you want to share this. Maybe it can make an impact, or maybe it will get lost in the sea of information. Who knows?
Hey everyone! Hope you're all doing well.
So I've been working hard at trynig to get a bigger and better sound. Going more blockbuster as it's really fun to do, and I'm a total sucker for these over the top aggressive "epic" tracks. For those who follow me, expect to hear a new track in a few days! Last time I messed up in the NGADM, creating a track which was intimate.
Not this time!
Tonight I've finished the composing and creating the bulk of the track (after many many mmmany days). All I do now is need to export it, mix it (something which I never really do) and then master it!
It doesn't look like a lot, but there is a lot going on. With 8 Full Kontakts, 39 Synths, 43 Samples, 92 Mixing Channels with effects on most and every single pattern is midi controlled or at least every note velocity controlled. Hopefully this track will give me a fighting chance against my opponents.
Hi there, you may be wondering, what has happened to all my art, and why have I deleted it?
Well, due to recent theiving many have taken alot of my art and used it within environments I did not allow for their own personal gain, photoshopping out the copyright watermarks I added to them then adding their own name. To restrict this from happening further I have stopped sharing all artworks here and on DeviantArt. Apologies as some of them we're really liked and favorited but I can't take the chance anymore with thieves.
In bid to unite all the audio community together for realtime feedback and chatty fun I've altered the WIP group that was quite quiet and made it into a group for the audio artists on the website. Feel free to join!
Hey everyone, ooo the comments panel has changed! So I noticed that Cal' said he was still awaiting to see what the model was, I took it for granted that everyone had actually seen the final image in the audio forum, but here's what it was. It was for the NGADM '13, a winner, 2nd place and third place image.
Congrats again to the winners ;)
Have no idea what this is for...nope, not at all!
Hey Everyone, here's a quick update from me. for anyone who is interested in the listen while having my stuff in the background here's a Peter Satera Playlist!
Would love to see some playlists from you guys! If you have one, link me!
Hello all! So I've been trying to play with sounds and trying to really widen my orchestra. I constantly listen to amazing pro stuff, and im still sick of how poor my stuff sounds. I thought i'd share some of my progress with you all in the conquest to really boost broadness to my instruments.
So I thought I would show what Im thinking of right now, I always wondered what it would be like to blend together a large array of samples. So I tried with a simple spicatto cello section. The section combines multiple libraries and blended together. See what you think, and comments are welcomed. :)
Is it been a year already!? I have to admit, im rather astonished. The days seem to be going by much quicker.. :(
Well, let's hope I can get a '11 Track out for christmas. :) For those who are wondering where I may have been - well ive been working and doing some animation on Rival 5: The Final Confrontation. Which can be watched here on the facebook group.
I tend to add progress images/stuff every few days or so.
Also can I thank everyone who has listened to my new track, and especially those who regularly comment on them! :) Much appreciated.
Will have to put up the Xmas tree soon!